INC BIBLE DECEPTIONS IN SUPPORTING THE RH-BILL

5/3/2011

Rebut this pls (came out in the INC opposes NFP methods and says it is immoral vid)

Brad/sis, mawalang galang na po. Pero, bago kayo magcomment, napanood ba ninyo yung video? Matanong ko lang, saan sa Bible na sinabing dapat mag-abstain ang mag-asawa ng sex? Hindi natin pinag-uusapan ang mga walang karapatan sa sex (premarital, extramarital). Sa mag-asawa lang. eh sabi sa Bible, huwag kayong magpigil para hindi makapasok ang Diablo. So, in short, sa mag-asawa, masama ang mag-abstain sa sex, unless both parties agree. Pls watch the whole video po, b4 commenting.

38 Comments

Raymond Bandril

5/3/2011 11:29:20 am

therefore the law pertaining to abstaining including during a woman's menstruation is not true. they really need bible studies from Marwil. LoL

Stef Ofhfs

5/3/2011 11:31:58 am

i will defer to other more knowledgeable folks here, Janina Teodoro but as far as i know the same bible verse 1 Cor 7:5 is the same verse that we Catholics use to support NFP. we can abstain for a time but not too much because it's not good for a marriage either. and always always it's a time to get holier and pray -- NFP requires lots of prayer and husband and wife to work together on their sanctity as individuals and as a couple, right? i think i watched the video, but have trouble remembering what their arguments were.

Stef Ofhfs

5/3/2011 11:34:08 am

this might help (covers pros and cons -- there is also much writing from catholic bloggers about nfp that provides much food for thought -- lmk if you want me to dig -- i think it was simcha fisher and erin manning and some Catholic blogger dad who was having this very intense (but educational nonetheless) discussion on these issues. http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=449926

Stef Ofhfs

5/3/2011 11:38:40 am

and this from cormac bourke: http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/augustine.htm

Stef Ofhfs

5/3/2011 11:39:58 am

i think the point to be made is that NFP as the Church teaches is is NOT supposed to be used with a contraceptive mentality -- but this really rests on a couple's discernment. so for the sake of argument, yes, NFP can be immoral. but if we're talking strictly about its efficacy for use as birth control, it is just as effective or even more so than artificial means, AND it doesn't have the side effects. i think that what we need to do as a group is point out that there are two facets to this issue. 1) we have a better, more effective, healthier alternative to artificial birth control IF THE GOAL IS BIRTH CONTROL OR BIRTH SPACING OR FAMILY PLANNING 2) we as Catholics do believe that NFP used with a contraceptive mentality is still morally wrong. cannot fuse these two together without confusing the issues.

Alan Dacanay

5/3/2011 11:41:24 am

I think one should always put this into context. First and foremost we do things with a purpose, if the purpose of the sex act is procreation, then one should not deny each other of this gift from God. However, taking this out of this context and basicaly just giving in to lust, makes the sex act meaningless. Thus NFP makes it safe as it is with both consent of the couple that they engage on the sex act when it is "safe". Getting into contraceptive mentality would mean taking away the purpose and just simply doing it despite the consequences. Taking away the love, the gift from God and the very purpose of the act. We become like animals, giving only to instincts without using our intelect, thus not becoming children of God.

Stef Ofhfs

5/3/2011 11:42:41 am

just clarification that #1 up there i meant is for people who aren't thinking in terms of morals -- IOW kung ang ipipilit is "hindi kami Katoliko" we have answer #1. and then we have #2 answer for those who are Catholic and wish to remain faithful to Church teaching.

Joel Jason

5/3/2011 11:43:52 am

Haay, I feel like an idiot to even comment on INC's weird logic, or lack thereof. 1 Cor 7:5 clearly advocates the good of abstinence among couples where they can devote themselves to prayer and strengthen themselves, otherwise they will train themselves to a lack of self-control. That is when the devil enters their hearts. See this verse: "Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

veritas899 link

5/3/2011 11:48:29 am

Hindi sinabi ng bibliya na ang sex ang hindi pwedi e-abstain ng mag-asawa. Ang ibig sabihin ng wag mag-pigil ay tungkol yan sa pag-gawa ng mabuti, para hindi makapasakok ang diablo dahil busy sa pag-gawa ng mabuti. Ang logic sa pag-abstain sa sex ay yong talata ng bibliya na ang halimbawa nito ay yong principle ng celibacy. Kagaya sa sinabi ng Panginoon sa Mateo 19:12 na for a reason mayroong mga tao na pumili ng hindi sila mag-asawa. At yan ay nangangahulogan na mayroong pag-abstain ng sex dahil hindi kasi pinili ang pag-aasawa. At saka implicitly stated ng bibliya ang abstinence dahil nag-tuturo ito ng fasting. Fasting ang essence of abstaining.

veritas899 link

5/3/2011 11:50:22 am

At saka hindi naman sinasabi ng talata na yon na hindi pwedi mag-abstain sa sex. Interpretation lang yan ng mga ministro para masuportahan nila ang pag go-against nila sa Iglesia Katolika. Walang mababasa sa bibliya na hindi pwedi mag-abstain sa sex ang mag-asawa.

veritas899 link

5/3/2011 11:52:23 am

Ang hindi dapat pigilan ang pag-gawa ng mabuti. Ang tamang halimbawa nito, ay yong catholic principle na wag pigilan o hadlangan ang bagong buhay na magawa ng mag-asawa. Ang contraception ay nag-pigil niyan kaya pumasok ang diablo.

veritas899 link

5/3/2011 11:55:45 am

Ang sex ay hindi masama sa mag-asawa. Catholic principle yan. Ibig sabihin hindi nag-tuturo ang katoliko na pigilan ang sex sa tamang oras at panahon. Ang pag-pigil na tama ay yong may dahilan na mabuti. Ang catholic stand nito, ay pinigilan lang ang masama sa sex, like sex with contraception (Gen38:8-10). Pigil sa sex na hindi kasal, pigil sa sex na hindi handa sa maraming anak dahil mahirap (parties must agree dahil kinakailangan sa situastion-NFP).

Lissa Poblete

5/3/2011 11:58:03 am

agree. tama si Fr. Joel --parang weird sagutin ang flawed/kakaibang logic nung nagcomment kay janina:
" eh sabi sa Bible, huwag kayong magpigil para hindi makapasok ang Diablo. So, in short, sa mag-asawa, masama ang mag-abstain sa sex, unless both parties agree."
....'huwag kayong magpigil para hindi makapasok ang diablo' means masama ang pag-abstain sa sexual relations?weird...it's hard to argue with them...

Lissa Poblete

5/3/2011 12:00:18 pm

isa pa,tell the commenter: i don't think it's "huwag magpigil"- the translation of the greek word apostereo is "do not defraud" one another--"huwag ipagkait" ang sarili sa isa't isa-and apostle paul said this nga para magpray sila for a time, then come together again kasi baka satan will tempt them for their lack of self-control or "incontinency"=kakulangan ng pagpipigil.

godj

5/3/2011 04:00:58 pm

in the first place why do i waste my time watching or listening to these two hypocrites?really its a waste of time.

Dansyl Landar Ventura

5/3/2011 06:10:16 pm

gawain ng mga manalistas yan, noon pa man.

Gloriane Godj

5/3/2011 06:11:49 pm

negosyante eh syempre pabor yan and para manghatak narin ng aanib sa iglesia ni manalo

Carlos Josue

5/3/2011 06:13:42 pm

This link shows a letter from INC why they reject NFP and support SOME aspects of the RH bill: http://dilimandaily.com/10121/iglesia-ni-cristo-inc-favors-rh-bill/.

Given these reasons, they should still reject the RH Bill. Christianity rejects sex outside marriage, something the RH Bill sponsors by giving out contraceptives to unmarried couples.

Their reason for rejecting NFP is also not solidly backed up by the Bible. NFP cannot be interpreted as depriving the spouse of marital relations, as this involves mutual consent and the couple can still have relations during the infertile period.

If their reason for rejecting NFP is that it allows for abstaining for long periods of time, then are they saying that the couple should be forced to have relations for a specific interval of time to avoid sinning? Are they condemning members whose spouses work as OFW's or elderly couples who may perhaps opt not to have relations anymore?

Carlos Antonio Palad

5/3/2011 06:48:54 pm

I couldn't stop laughing while listening to this. It is OBVIOUS to anyone who reads or listens to the text (whether in English or Tagalog) that the "SUPILIN" / "CONTROL" of Gen 1:28 refers to man's CONTROL OVER THE EARTH. Hindi kailangan ng theology diyan. Basic grammar lang.

Carlos Antonio Palad

5/3/2011 06:50:57 pm

Yung "control" over the earth naging "control over population" sa kanila. Weird. Unfathomably stupid.

Eric B Manalang

5/3/2011 06:53:43 pm

lets pray that their followers wake up to the feeble minds of their leaders.

Annaminda Cruz

5/12/2011 04:55:55 pm

1. Why do you say that sex is only for procreation? Can't it be sex as enjoyed by married couple? Kailangan ba may end goal lagi?

2. Contraceptives to be used for pre-marital sex... hmmm... where is the belief that parents can teach their children? Kung tama ang naituro ng magulang, susunod ang anak.

3. Unfathomably stupid... psst, ingat sa pagsasalita, baka sabihin ganyan ang mga katoliko - pintasero at hindi maingat.

Ka Bacani link

5/22/2011 04:56:15 am

why not engage with a formal debate regarding this...so both parties can explain their sides..

revo alexis estillore link

7/17/2011 05:11:12 pm

ilove pro life....this means to me ooooo yeahhh

jim gorre link

7/17/2011 05:13:32 pm

i love pro life.....this means to me....rock and run.....

kryss ian vano link

7/17/2011 05:15:01 pm

i dont care about rh bill....i love to be a pro lifer.....

erlie padua link

7/17/2011 05:16:41 pm

i love to fuck thats why i love pro life.........evil as your mother...reject rh bill....

mecailo infiesto link

7/17/2011 05:20:08 pm

i love sex...........so much..thats why i love to fuck in a legal way....

meacilo infiesto at your service..

archer bachoco link

7/17/2011 05:21:57 pm

i love horse because my face is like a horse...mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........

Ritz

8/2/2011 01:20:16 pm

INC of Manalo is not for the teachings of the bible but for self business interest. Its all about money for the leader but for the members they thought they are spreading a gospel.

Think of the ministers, they don't care what they teach as long as they are receiving their salary that's enough.

Whether its a twist or deception in this INC church -- who cares. The business is recruit more members to earn more money for Manalo.

DO NOT BELIEVE THEIR DECEPTIONS!

Sam

11/1/2012 07:45:49 pm

WOW what a very immature and baseless facts about money. Its obvious you have a personal issues regarding the INC. You even had to say INC of Manalo when you could have just said INC only.

You want to know something even more surprising? I'm not an INC member but have done my due diligence to know that they believe in what they preach and is not about money. You want to know how i know this? My brother who is very wealthy man who offered them a huge donation in the millions of dollars and they would not accept it. ;-) They simply told him in the time of offering it up to him what his heart wants to give so he could not give it as a donation and get a tax wright off.

It amazing how many people will bash the INC and other religions.

Shame on you Ritz... Very uneducated I must say.

ken

8/14/2011 11:25:05 pm

Bakit hindi nyo pinatapos ang Video... bakit nyo pinutol sa paraang dun lang ninyo makikita ang gusto nyong sagot... Hindi kaya kayo ang nagbibigay ng deception sa tao hindi ang INC. Palibhasa kasi kayong mga katoliko hindi nyo pinapalaganap ang mga salita ng Diyos para dumami kayo. Pinaparami nyo ang mga miyembro ninyo sa paraang magparami ng tao hindi dahil sa aral ng Diyos. Mahiya naman kayo... lantaran na kaya ang mga katiwalian sa ng mga miyembro ninyo pero walang pagtitiwalag na nagaganap... yan ba ang aral ng Diyos.

veritas899 link

8/16/2011 07:51:35 am

Ken, maraming salamat sa comment mo. Ilan bang mga librong katoliko ang pinutol putol ng mga ministro sa pagbabasa nila sa kanilang mga programa sa radio at television. Pwedi man tayong mag-putol ng video, dahil mataas naman masyado kung hindi natin putolin, na ang pakay natin ay hindi naman lahat ang gusto nating bigyan ng comment. Okey lang na putolin natin basta makuha lang ang punto. Hindi katulad sa ginawa ng mga ministro, na putolin nila at dayain tayo sa pagbigay kahulogan sa mga binabasa nila!

veritas899 link

8/16/2011 08:05:18 am

Ken, payo ko lang sa yo na pag-aralan mo personally ng mabuti ang mga aral ng katoliko. At wag kang aasa sa mga turo ng ministro, dahil hindi nila alam na maliligaw kayo sa mga turo nila. Ikaw mismo ang magsuri sa bibliya at history, kung ano talaga ang tunay na Iglesya ang itinatag ng panginoon!

Alam mo, ako noon, muntik akong matulad mo! Dahil nagpasya na sana ako noon na lumipat sa INC! Buti nalang hindi natuloy dahil may mga taong naging instrumento ng Dios, na maliwanagan ako! God Bless!

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INC BIBLE DECEPTIONS IN SUPPORTING THE RH-BILL

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